badstar | (no subject)

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Okay. Just once, I'd like to be on a pagan webforum, or email list, or something, any freakin' thing and NOT see "bright blessings", "merry meet", "merry part" all over the place. I don't know of anyone who I've ever heard say/seen write any of these things whose actually used them in everyday life, so why must they be peppered all over the "pagan context"??

Whatever happened to "Hello", "Good-bye", and "Have a nice day"????

Cause you bet your ass that's precisely what these folks say to the people at the office or in the bank teller line.

I'm mildly irritable right now and I've been to too many web forums and read too many emails this evening.

and I'm half-wondering if my telling Mike that I didn't want to hear what he was saying today might not have been taken by Kelly as me saying the same to her (I don't think it was, she didn't seem to, and I said flat out that I wasn't referring to what she was saying, but I'm currently over-analyzing like 75% of the things that I've done or said in the last 24 hours. Because I'm on One Of Those Moods.)

But...I was pretty severely annoyed. Sorry, but you don't just take my talking about a church that I used to attend and you know nothing about and start in on how it's a vehicle for mass brainwashing just because they have a PA system, (Yeah, it's a huge church. Please tell me how the people way in the back are supposed to hear what's being said.) and then just move on into bashing the religion as a whole. Oh, and nice thinly-veiled racist commentary there too. I'm getting flat out sick of hearing so freakin' many pagans who claim to be all loving and open-minded and accepting and tolerant and...and...and...just constantly bashing "Xianity" as if it were some all-encompassing evil.

I might not agree with a whole lot of Christianity. I know that a whole lot of bad stuff goes on behind some closed doors. But Christianity is no different from any other religion. Bad stuff goes on behind some pagan doors too. (Too many people forget, or just ignore the fact that there's a lot fewer of us, therefore a lot fewer cases to hear about.) And obviously it's got something right, because hot damn, there sure are a lot of Christians out there. That whole thing about being saved from damnation for acceptance of Jesus as Savior? It's a pretty sweet deal. My gods never did anything like that.

I just don't believe in it. And I'm not worried about being damned to hell. But there's no more reason to across-the-board bash Christianity than there is for those who do bash pagans to do so.

As one who falls under the pagan umbrella, I get to be associated with all this. Which I must say, I really would prefer not to be.

"To speak the words that need be spoken" indeed....actually, it was really weird. I never had the conscious thought to say what I said. The words just came out unpremeditated. Not rude or obnoxious. My voice was fairly low and completely neutral, the exact tone was one that I don't remember ever hearing out of my mouth before. Did I take my words last night so seriously to heart?

Uhg, I want to sleep. I shouldn't...but I think I'm going to sleep tonight. I will need to try and force myself to sleep tomorrow too.

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Christianity-bashing, I believe, is a level of development. In order to embrace the sub-culture, one needs to withdraw from the dominant culture. Involved in this process is the "bashing" of the dominant culture.

It doesn't make it any more right, it is just a predictable stage of human development.

*College Student Development Master's Student, bowing out*

I've always been of the opinion the official Pagan greeting should be changed to "Bite me." At least that's what always wants to fly out of my mouth whenever I hear someone say "Blessed Be" or whatever other corny shit you can think of.

And yeah, I know what you mean about the Christian bashing. A co=worker of mine had some exposure to the Pagan community years ago when he was trying to see if he could belong in this faith and that was all he ever ran into, turned him off so much he didn't look into Paganism further. This comes up just about every time we discuss religion (like me, he also has a hard time remembering what he tells people and repeats himself a lot) and then I always feel like I have to say something on behalf of myself and all the other sane Pagans I know who may not believe in Christianity, may have some fundamental problems with its doctrines (as we all know I do) but have no particular problem with its existence or the vast majority of the people who practice that religion (these of course would be the Christians who are so busy living their faith they don't have the time to tell the rest of the world how they should be living theirs, naturally).

Wow. As a Christian, I get so used to having people not of my faith constantly bashing me, and it's a nice change to see this. Christians go around ridiculing other religions enough that I can see why people might want to retaliate, but I get pretty sick of it, too. It's not the way my faith was meant to be.

Yeah...Jesus was pretty cool. I really think that if everyone actually followed what he had to say- or at least a better part of it, the world would be a much better place than it is. Buuuut...people are people.

I think it's kinda sad when I encounter a Christian and we start talking and they ask me why I'm not Christian, and they get all ready for some massive bashing session, and all I have to say is "After 8 years of trying to believe what I was told and finding myself unable to believe it, I figured I'd given it more than a fair try and that it was time to try something else." I've had quite a few conversations like this and so often the response is "That's it? No church-bashing or crazy feminist rant?"

Don't get me wrong, if someone comes after me all brimstone and hellfire and damnation and such, I'm right back at them with every clever retort in the book. I'm really happy to say though, that since I've moved to Baltimore I can count on one hand the number of times that people have actually tried to tell me I was going to hell or anything comparable to that (and all but one of those incidents have just been flat-out bafflingly weird, not so much violently rude. It was a good bit different when I lived in PA though.)

But I've no reason to be rude and obnoxious to someone who's engaging in polite conversation (I know, some people think it rude to ask strangers about religion. I'm not sure I think it rude per se. It definitely takes a certain level of audacity.)

You're definitely right on about all of this, and I honestly do try to keep it in mind when I'm talking about Christianity.

My first instinct is *always* to bash Christianity. I hate that I'm like that, but given the way that I grew up, I honestly have nothing but contempt for a religion that tacitlly agrees with how people treated me and my family when I was little. That said, I do try my damnedest not to say that in front of Christians or let myself be baited into a conversation where I'll basically end up saying something along those lines. Just like I don't constantly try to convert people to veganism or vegetarianism.

But yeah, I just wish that I could combat my inherent distaste for Christianity. For now, I guess it's enough that I aim not to make it apparent/external. One day though, I shall be a better person :)

Way to go girl...I agree with most of what you said...I do try, and sometimes fail (Christian bashing). I try to be open minded (and I sometimes fail at that as well). I just keep trying and sometimes failing, but then I'm human and supposed to fail (sometimes). Btw just one more thing to say "Blessed Be" :)

Oddly enough, "Blessed be" doesn't bother me nearly as much as "Bright blessings". It's like "Bright blessings" ups the cheesiness by a factor of roughly 14 or something.

By the way, if you get to talk to Kelly before I do, I know that I told her flat out that I wasn't talking to her when I told Mike to cut it out (she was talking about a specific incident with her church next door...I know they've given her trouble. He was just being a general ass.) and I don't think that she thought I was talking to her also, but could you let her know that?

But Christianity is no different from any other religion. Bad stuff goes on behind some pagan doors too. (Too many people forget, or just ignore the fact that there's a lot fewer of us, therefore a lot fewer cases to hear about.)

Thanks for being one of the very few who understands that.

I think more understand than let on. Sadly, it's not "cool" in many circles to say this.

But, you're welcome :-)

holy canoli I had no clue this conversation went on that long and with that end wowsers. I was playing around about Theta brainwaves, apparently Mike wasn't? I didn't even know you were that upset about it. I started listening to Kelly and her unfortunate issues not even realizing. I am sorry. Damn ADHD apparently or maybe it was the bad donut holey things I ate. I didn't hear any racism comments either or I'd have said something must have been after I stopped paying attention. Either way apparently he's a jerk don't let him get to you. I didn't know you were Christian at one point, maybe if I had continued to listen I would have dang and the thing is you prolly told me before. I think I must be losing brain matter to old age or something maybe it's the whiskey:P

hehe would I tell the bank teller Namaste, prolly not, unless I felt that the god in me bowed to the god in her, if so I would. If she was wearing a Valknut I /would/ say something most probably "Odin be praised." damn straight I would. If it was a dude I'd say "You free for a Sumbel tonight.." then again if it was a chick...no...um nevermind. Now I have a different type of job and yah I say things like 'by the gods' all the time then again I called den a friggin idiot in the middle of a Lowes at work too the joys of working at night....but my world is really really different from corporate 9-5 there is a reason for that. Telling Janice HR 'specialist' I need off for an Asatru gathering then the next week for a Samhian gathering, yah....no it doesn't work out well most often.

hehe I get BB and MM AND MP all the time from some of my Wiccan friends and it drives me crazy yah. Thing is these people use these comments ALL the time, they dont do the 9-5 thing either one owns a repair shop, very pagan friendly. One is a homesteader...yah I started saying things in German back to them, they don't get the hint. The majority though I do have to agree with you to.

Now Gavin mind you, if you tell me to bite you even in greeting I /am/ going to do it!

Much Love,

Anna

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And thanks for not being angrily anti-Christian when discussing your faith and others. I wouldn't be able to stomach your journal otherwise!

I don't think I'd be able to stomach me

I have my moments, really I do...but to be fair, I pagan-bash at least as much, and I *try* to limit my bashing to actual, specific occurrences. :-P

Thing don't always go all that great for minority religions. I think that the general attitude of "oooh, persecooshun!!!!!" is greatly exaggerated, there are still a lot of inequities that need to be addressed and general attitudes of inferiority, like the only recently-resolved issue of the VA and the pentacle...now people want Wiccan chaplains in the military but that's being denied (I'll admit, I don't know the details on that one)...but at the same time, people are trying to claim persecution and prejudice against the Thor's Hammer for the Asatru and the Awen for Druids because they're not approved as symbols of faith...but as far as I've been able to tell in the last several months I've been looking at it, no one's died and had a request even filed on their behalf for the request to have been approved or denied. Stuff like that, plus the wholesale bashing of Christianity (sometimes "monotheism" in general)really doesn't make a good case for us to be seen in a better light. I know that it's a back and forth cycle, but each perpetuates the other, and as an aspiring member of the clergy, the least I can do is bitch about it in public places :-P

By the way...as I mentioned in another comment abovce, "blessed be" doesn't bother me a fraction as much as "bright blessings" does.

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Any chaplain has to be many things...spiritual advisor, counselor, someone to pray with, perform rites for those who die on duty, minister to the sick and wounded...whenever the military actually decides to install pagan chaplains, no doubt they will have some sort of PR or at least question-answering duties thrust upon them to respond to opponents of such a thing. It's a lot more than than a group of Protestant Christians getting together for a Bible study and fellowship, or some Wiccans observing a full moon ritual. And it's often in a crisis situation.

I read the most heartbreaking story about military chaplains a few weeks ago....here it is... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18367801/site/newsweek/

I was thinking about when you said that and I think you were very tactful and it was necessary to be said. I've gotten very good about not bashing and when I do, it's more criticizing with back-up for my reasoning.

Given how many wonderful people and how many not-so-wonderful people of different faiths I've met, I try to desist from bashing a specific faith.

However, bad leaders and over-restrictive authority in ANY faith is fair game.

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Correct

Re: Correct

Re: Correct

Merry Meet... oh

Re: I was going to say "blessed be" but about 10 people beat me to it

Re: I was going to say "blessed be" but about 10 people beat me to it

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