Frustrated.

[badstar]

So, seriously...when IS it okay to speak against something I don't agree with? Just how long am I supposed to shut up, nod and smile to practices that I have a problem with in the name of "supporting the pagan community" or whatever.

Comments

[robinhoodvandal.livejournal.com]

hello freedom of speach. Isn't half the point of being pagan that we don't push our beleifs on others? I'd hope that most of us would take that to the logical conclusion that we should let other's express their beleifs and not stifle that. or do I not get my nice little pagan cookie for today?
/snark

seriously you should be able to say whatever the f- you want!

[fuego.livejournal.com]

meh, thanks. people suck.

[liritsvoice.livejournal.com]

hey, hon. i dont know the specifics, but i've been meaning to blog about a similar problem i have. especially since the party. random stuff going through my mind that i cant quite seem to say. very often i find myself in the position of having to defend paganism to closed-minded christians, or defend christianity to equally bigoted pagans. having to defend myself to my family and friends. my usual inclination is just to keep quiet. i dont like confrontations. and people doing the judgeing dont usually want answers, they just want to vent. i usually just try to be a good listener, unless things get out of hand and blatantly offensive. again, i dont know what youre referring to. but there comes a time when one must stand up and speak out.

maybe i'll post more about this on my own blog. too many thoughts going through my head at the moment, and i have this vaguely paranoid feeling that i can't trust anyone enough to open up.

[fuego.livejournal.com]

or defend christianity to equally bigoted pagans

yeah....i know what you mean.

a little respect...

[liritsvoice.livejournal.com]

hehe, i just felt like some erasure:

"And if I should falter
Would you open you arms out to me
We can make love not war
And live at peace with our hearts"

i hope i've told you this before, but one of the things i appreciate about you is the effort you put into looking at every side of an issue with an unbiased eye. i've always felt that we could see things differently and still respect eachother. or at the very least still flirt with eachother. ;-)

at the risk of starting a flame war over this, i'd like to address something thats been on my mind. (perhaps this isn't an appropriate venue??? delete my comments as you see fit.) it seems to me that people get politics/religion confused with God. there's a lot of anger towards christians because of unfavorable political situations. and believe me, i can empathise. people are dying overseas, war sucks, conservatives pretty much OWN the government, and the other problems are too numerous to list here. yes, christians have their share of problems and stupidity. BUT.... thats not how i see God. my understanding of the world is limited and imperfect. but from my point of view, that jesus guy was a LIBERAL who had the audicity to run about preaching love. LOVE thy neighbor. LOVE thy enemies, even. go out into the world and help the sick and the poor. reach out to the prostitutes. all that jazz. yes, christians can be stupid hypocrits, just like anyone else. we're not above having problems. however, i think one can disagree with the politics of all that, wholeheartedly disagree with the RELIGION of all that, and still *respect* to some degree what jesus was about.

i've been feeling a bit beat up (nothing to do with you), and honestly i'm a bit tired of it. mais, eh, ca fais rien. i love you, hon. *hugs*

Re: a little respect...

[fuego.livejournal.com]

nah, it's ok. write whatever you want, we'll always flit *bats eyelashes*

i don't ave a problem with christinity...i don't agree with a lot of what many denominations and individuals have to say, but when you get down to it I'm not christian because I don't believe it, not because of what other people do and say. If that were the case, I'd be hypocritical...there are people in all religions who do and say things I have problems with.

I don't like mixing religion and politics, and yeah...it's really annoying how people think that America= Teh God! I don't like what's going on in government and what the right-winfgers are trying to do (it sounds so crazy-conspiracy theorist, but when you start tracing things about to the sources....it's right there.)

Yeah, Jesus is pretty nifty. I wound't mind meeting him.

Re: a little respect...

[liritsvoice.livejournal.com]

hehe, replying to many things at once. wow, you type fast. :-D i'm glad youre back online!!!

eh, as you prolly know, my rantings weren't aimed at you. believe as you will, my dear. and yes, the conspiracy theories are prolly all true, judging by what's going on in the states these days. bleh!!

Re: a little respect...

[fuego.livejournal.com]

yep, i know.

people suck. kill 'em all :-P

[pytheos.livejournal.com]

Call upon Ares and speak away!

[pagandenma.livejournal.com]

I've found that if something you say is making people uncomfortable, then it's probably hitting a nerve. You have the right to speak up - politely - and if people can't handle it, that's their problem.

My Mom gets the most irritated with me when I hit the sore spots, the places where she knows she's not completely in the right, but won't admit it because of pride and such things.

You wanna talk about it over the weekend, you know where I am.

[fuego.livejournal.com]

thanks..s.epaking of the weekend, are things still on tomorrow?

[fuego.livejournal.com]

well, that's one instance of it anyway. the whole thing is just frustrating. thanks *hugs*

[chironcentaur.livejournal.com]

Pagans, they're so tolerant they're intolerant. You got to love it! :-)

We already talked about this, but I'll say again here where everyone can see it. You didn't do anything wrong. You're entitled to your opinions and your objections and you have as much a right to voice those thoughts on the list as anyone else does. You don't need to agree with everyone and you don't need to support anything other people do if you feel you have good reason not to.

Don't let these people scare you off from speaking your mind. There are probably more people that want to hear what you have to say and generally agree with you than not. At least that's what I think. :-)

[fuego.livejournal.com]

I'm not scared. if the topic comes up again, i'll say the same things- and any other interesting thigns i may find out. i'm just frustrated. like you said, so tolerant they're intolerant.

[alucardryft.livejournal.com]

Unfortunatly it never is and never will be OK as long as society remains closed minded. The first ammendment is nothing more then a ruse to make people speak there mind so that the government has targets to brainwash and or silence so that their utopia becomes a reality and the world is normal. I agree that we should be free to worship as we choose as long as it harms none, but the majority of people don't agree and feel that everything mainstream is write and everything else is wrong.

[fuego.livejournal.com]

the funny thing though is the issue in reference isn't about people worshipping or the government or whatever...it's about that whole Witch School fiasco. (i've posted about it a few times if you havn't seen)

a discussion came up on a list that I'm on about the excecution of the idea- a pagan list- and it got ugly.

Basically, I'm an elitist snob because I have a problem with this Witch School thing. I'm "dividing the pagan community" and not being supportive.

[tantric-pixie.livejournal.com]

I had the same problem on a mailing list for a local Wiccan/Neopagan group here in MI. Apparently there were Witch School "life members", and I got jumped as being close-minded... she actually used the Rede on me (somehow, that essay by juliaki was "harming others"). I could see where things were going when the list member was being applauded by other list members.

Some days, I really don't like other Pagans.