Bitchy Pagan Post

[badstar]

Where in the hell do so many pagans get the idea that you must be spiritually void or stagnant and incapable of having any sort of real connection to the divine if you are "book smart", a recon (or otherwise not eclectic) and/or actually (oh my gawds!) call it a "religion" instead of a "path"????

Really, I find the idea that because I prefer to get my information from sources not found in the Llewellyn catalog and because I *like* to read academic articles on the gods, history, religion etc, then I must be somehow spiritually stunted to be insulting and presumptuous.

Uh...nothing to see here, go about your business.

Comments

[heartofmoon.livejournal.com]

Well, OBVIOUSLY, it's easier to connect with gods on a real level when you know nothing about them.

[fuego.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, all that silly information. Clouds your connection. How could I overlook that?

[theophania.livejournal.com]

Who the hell would say something like that? I mean, that's much better than 1, 2, 3, I'm a witch! And I read all the really neat books and look at my hair. Aren't I like totally awesome? *pukes* I'm ashamed cause I'm not academic enough for my liking. Even though I try to be somewhat reconstructionist, my mind goes into modern rather than ancient Hellas. I admire people like you who truly take the time to learn things and to practise according to your feelings and also to ancient ideas.

[fey-struck.livejournal.com]

Don't know much about you yet fuego only from some of your post and your comments on mine, but you have got me thinking again...Bad fuego:P. I don't know where I fit in or what the hell I was going to say here but I did have a point to make. I think where you have a problem with the intellectuals I am finding mine with the flakes. Sure I would love to know more about my "Path, Belief, Religion, or whatever the hell you want to want to call it." The problem with finding good people to talk to or accurate info has been like searching for the prize in your cereal box, just a bunch of flakes. Want to switch?

[fuego.livejournal.com]

Eh, I've seen these for years, so...lots of people. A post on an email list just brought it to mind.

[fuego.livejournal.com]

Hehehehe, yeah finding the information isn't a problem for me. I've found that working in tech support for over five years now has made me really good at research- at least as long as I have a vague clue on the subject to start with. Google-fu is one of my deadliest weapons...lol

[leodios.livejournal.com]

Yur meen and Teh Gawdess hates you!

[chironcentaur.livejournal.com]

I don't deny that those Recons exist that worship the culture more than anything else and are so obsessed with "getting it right" that they entirely miss the point. But are we all like that? Fuck no, and honestly those people aren't too terribly difficult to spot, you know if you're bothering to actually read anything we're saying.

The shallow, self centered spirituality from the I'd never read a book crowd is just so the way to go!!!

[chronarchy.livejournal.com]

When I have a friend, I like to know a bit about them. I like to ask questions, find out what sorts of movies they like, where they like to go to dinner, and what they like to do in their spare time. This lets me interact with them better. That's what the scholarly process really is, when applied to religion.

Granted, I don't spend so much time finding out what they like that I end up stalking them. . . that's the extreme end of the recontstruction spectrum, I think: you know them so well that you forget that sometimes, they might like new things or things that are different. Or maybe their tastes have changed a bit over time.

Though I admit, I like the idea of a paparazzi-like group of Pagans going through Apollo's trash-bin, seeking a half-eaten sandwich and deriving an entire story about the kinds of things Apollo likes to eat when he's in a funk after breaking up with his "long-time steady" Daphne. Sometimes, it seems like that's exactly what we're doing.

[pagandenma.livejournal.com]

I think it's important to know that background information so that you practice wisely. Otherwise you end up with those "Pagan horrific" rituals where someone is mixing three different pantheons with disastrous results. Or you end up pissing of the gods somehow - which is NEVER a good thing.


I like my research and I like my inspiration. My hope is that I can take the best of both and come up with something that both I and the Gods like.

[unixslut.livejournal.com]

I know the post whereof you speak, and I just didn't see what everyone else did, but I'm way in the minority, so whatever *grin*... However, the point is a valid one - many people do get so far into books that they lose track of the gods themselves. My introduction to recons was many years ago, and it was to just that kind of people, unfortunately. Then, of course, I ran into "you know who" and his club of zombies, which further enforced my opinion of recons.

It was not until I reached Neokoroi and Neos Alexandria that I began to realize that "recon" didn't mean "stuffy book learner with no imagination." So I do understand where people come from when they say that.

However, I also think it's important to realize not everyone is like that. It's been a long journey, but one I'm glad I've taken. NA and Neokoroi are both organizations that truly inspire the imagination as well as stressing that book knowledge is AS important (but not MORE important) than that ecstatic connection with the gods.

I've always been a believer that you start with "orthopraxis"... just doing what others have done before, so you can get a feel for it. Then you get comfortable enough that you can venture into your own territory, whether that's deep book learning, or poetry, or ritual, or whatever. And once you start that part, you might be lucky enough to be touched by the gods. :)

[a-quiet-patch.livejournal.com]

Thankyou. I know what you mean, especially about calling it a 'religion' and not a 'path'.

I get the impression that some think, unless you follow a loose spirituality with no real central belief, you are brainwashed.

[totallypinkrock.livejournal.com]

Intriguing - I'm a Zen Buddhist (with a dab of Asatru; just sayin' ^_^) and I find that I have little patience for reading much beyond the basics about my religion (any brand of Buddhism, mind you. Zen is ... hard to nail down in words).
It's really, really not for me to read long treatises about my religion. But, well, Buddhism really is just about following, what, twelve little suggestions and meditating a lot, so as far as I can tell, that's all there is to *do* with one's time as a Buddhist.
I could see the situation with any pagan stuff being very different.

Also, eeeew! How dare anyone criticize how you go about your faith? I mean, scholarship is WAY important to all sorts of other religions... why should yours be any different?
P.S. The whole path v. religion thing makes me think some folks just want to be perceived as cooler.

[liritsvoice.livejournal.com]

Um, this might be a crazy notion, but there's nothing wrong with finding out as much as possible about what you're worshiping. The religion and the relationship and the studying all go together.

Hehe *hugs*

[lylythe-strega.livejournal.com]

Heh. Two terms spring to mind at the mention of Llewellyn: "crystal-suckers" and "newage" ("new age" pronounced as "sewage"...get it, huh? ;>

I quote "Animal House" - "Knowledge Is Good". Combine knowledge with practice, experience, and wisdom, and you'll come up with ritual that doesn't produce derision, incense that doesn't make people sick (unless that's the intent ;> ), and spiritual practice that fits you and makes sense to you.

That's my experience, anyway...which did involve starting out with Scott Campbell and Z. Budapest books years ago. I'm not knocking them as references - but to worship the books or the teachers, as was pointed out, I think misses the point drastically.