Here's The Line..And Here's Someone Pole Vaulting It....

[badstar]

Students nailing names of non-Christians to a cross. Students were nailing names to the cross as part of a high school See You At The Flag Pole thing. There is no information in the article about the exact nature of the act.


You know, there's a point where we're no longer talking about the freedom to express one's religion. This is...well, I don't have words. Hanging someone on a cross was a method of execution. Were they going for the symbolic execution angle? WHY would people do this? Oh yeah..because if you're not Christian, you're a satanist, you're going to hell, you're evil, you're horrible, you've rejected the "good news", you're not "saved".

I'm gonna be honest here...the term "saved" bugs me. Yes, it bugs me. And it's bothered me a whole lot ever since the day after Alex died. I went to school the day after she died, and I came home in the afternoon. Shortly after I walked in the door, I got a phone call. A friend of mine and Alex's, who was then attending a different school, found out that she had died and called me to talk a bit. A lot of us were doing a lot of talking, so it was nothing different. But Scott had something very particular in mind that he wanted to know. And his exact words burned themselves into my brain. He said "Renee, there's something I've wndered about for a long time and I've never been able to think of a good way or time to ask this, but now that she died I have to know and you would be the one to know the answer to this...was Alex saved? I need to know because she's gone to hell if she wasn't and I can't bear the thought of that."

Somewhat shocking, I don't remember how I responded. Alex didn't belong to a church, I don't think she was "saved". She was interested in spirituality and religion, but not just Christianity. Actually, she was very interested in Native American spirituality. Whatever, my train of thought just veered onto a sidetrack. And I'm reasonably sure Alex isn't burning in hell.

Saved. From what? Yes, I know from an eternity of damnation. I accepted long ago that I'm gonna burn in Hell...at east according to the tennets of the Christian faith. But hey, we all know how much I like fire, so that could be fun...

All jokes aside, I just dont know what to say. I don't know how to respond to a religion that says "This is the only valid way. If you don't go this way, you're just..wrong and that's all there is to it." Someone once said to me "Everyone's a Christian, they just havent found the church where they belong."

I beg to differ.

Honestly, I don't think anyone has it quite right. Including me. There's only one way to find out, ya know? But whatever the consequences are...do I believe that we're all gonna be tortured for eternity? NO. I really don't. And no, I don't take Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

You know, I'm not sure what my point here is anymore. But it really bothers me that peope do things like this. And this was done at a school. Yes, I know it wasn't school-sponsored. I don't care. It's not the school I'm having issues with here.

And so many Christians talk about being persecuted and not being allowed to express their faith in the public square.

Were I a lesser person, I'd call for Pagans to nail the names of those Christians to a wooden pentagram.

Note: Yes, a number of y'all who will read this are Christians. If you respond...well, do so as you see fit. This rant has been brought to you by a Disgruntled Fuego

And per the usual, there's no registration to read the article.

Comments

[fervid-dryfire.livejournal.com]

...which goes back to where this started anyway: being violated should not have spiritual ramifications relative to you, because it is not an action you are willingly committing to do- so don't sweat it if someone else does it.

On the other hand, say you respond to being violated in that way by intentionally partaking in an act of that nature- say, in response to "getting a hex" or something, you perform some voodoo remedy ritual- then you break commandments one and two and there you have it. Not your fault until and unless you "buy into" it. =|

[fuego.livejournal.com]

wow, this has turned into quite a discussion.

Whether something has spiritual ramifications or not because you don't take part in that belief...i may be misinterpreting, but I don't think Becca *necessarily* is referring to that (correct me if I'm wrong hon)

I think she's talking more about a feeling of emotional violation, which I can totally understand. I see two valid points of view here...yours and hers. Hers makes more sense to me from a personal perspective, but I can understand yours too.

Andy, You're saying that if someone does somethign with your name/likeness whatever where you did not consent, possibly have no clue that it happened and don't believe in the motivation of the act. It has not affected you in any way because it's caused you no personal damage, physically, mentally, financially...whatever, therefore it has not harmed you and you could care less. You're able to keep yourself detatched.

Becca, you're saying that if something has been done with your name, likeness and you didn't consent but you find out about it, you feel that you've been violated whether any damages come of it or not because it was something that you did not consent to. You feel attached to the situation against your will, correcto?

I'm not going to stop this discussion. It's interesting. And I like to provoke :-P

But I say this.

I see two different points of view here. For whatever it's worth or not, my personal feelings lean more towards Becca's thoughts. But I completely acknowledge that Andy's side is just as valid and it makes sense to me intellectually. What differs here is whether someone is willing or able to detatch themself from the use of their name or likeness for non-consensual whatever.

So...carry on as you will. Just fight nice :-)

[fervid-dryfire.livejournal.com]

I think she's talking more about a feeling of emotional violation, which I can totally understand.

The nature of your perspective makes sense: most girls are like that anyway.

It has not affected you in any way because it's caused you no personal damage, physically, mentally, financially...You're able to keep yourself detatched.

Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying.


I see two different points of view here. For whatever it's worth or not, my personal feelings lean more towards Becca's thoughts.

Yeah, yeah...I knew you were biased the second you called the other party "hon" and didn't have any endearing term for me! >;-T

[fuego.livejournal.com]

Okay darling.

[fervid-dryfire.livejournal.com]

I said endearing, not patronizing. =P

[fuego.livejournal.com]

Hey, I've been known to call people "darling" and not be patronizing about it. Then again, that I think that stopped when I moved out of Texas.

Good point. Well, I'll just call you "hon" too then...hon.

[fervid-dryfire.livejournal.com]

...as long as it's sincere. =>

[liritsvoice.livejournal.com]

youre... youre... playing with us!!! we're just pawns in your twisted little game!!!! *cries* well, i'm through with playing! i'm out! *calmly walks away from computer*

*rushes back, flings self at computer, hugs it tight* aww, who am i kidding. i love you, dear computer, dear lj, dear flame-war. i'll never leave you again, i promise.

[fuego.livejournal.com]

Twisted? Moi? I think that's a little harsh...

[liritsvoice.livejournal.com]

i'm not talking about spiritual ramifications here. i'm talking about feeling violated. if i told a trusted friend some personal information about myself, and then the next day i find my name on a *list,* *nailed* to a peice of wood, i'd feel violated, vulnerable, and pissed off. its a broken trust, a breach of confidence. my personal information was made public, through someone i had confided in.

how did those kids get that list of names?!?!?! its *degrading* to be singled out and labeled like that. like having a scarlet letter tattooed to your face. having your name publicly *nailed* like that?!? just frightening. in my mind, thats a threatening action. like cross burning. its horrible that a symbol of Jesus, the Prince of Peace Himself, came to be used in such a violent way.

[fuego.livejournal.com]

ok, feeling violated. i had it :-)